Many thanks for the brand new estimate which i had not viewed prior to
I am not sure if Cankaya sexy women you had access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or perhaps not, as it are created because a resource to possess Us citizens with colonial forefathers away from Plantagenet ancestry. The guy brings among their evidences that Joanna was brand new mother away from Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn offered the latest attributes off Knighton and you will Norton castles for the Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you may Gwladus was hitched. It can was unlawful to possess Llewelyn supply Joanna’s property so you’re able to a keen illegitimate daughter (or individual who was not a baby from Joanna). The fresh new attributes regarding Norton and you can Knighton remained in the Mortimer relatives thereafter. The brand new offer are, “That in case the new King bring Belongings so you’re able to a guy that have an excellent lady off their kindred during the frank matrimony, plus the woman dyeth in the place of topic, the man on Kings case shall perhaps not hold on a minute for his lifetime, because the lady was the cause of the current.” This basically means, the latest features might have reverted back again to the latest crown in advance of they could have been supplied to a child who was maybe not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t have access to the newest Plantaganet Ancestry from the Doug Richardson, however, did gain access to many discussions of your and their ideas with other genealogists (particular getting your, but some and additionally up against). I think, once i stated in my early in the day report, one what swings they personally(Joanna as the mother out of Gwladus), ‘s the import of one’s characteristics you mention to Ralph de- Mortimer through to their ed two of the people ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose that when the Gwladus got the new ded their own youngsters therefore. Regardless of the objections between your eminent genealogists We talk about a lot more than, there was a broad consensus you to definitely Gwladus Ddu might be relatively defined as the fresh child from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth by the Joanna, child (then legitimised) from John, King out-of The united kingdomt. Let me get this chance to agree with Sharon (within the a contact to me) you to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian are of the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and therefore getting bloodstream sis so you can Gruffudd. We legs which partially into the a modern listing used in ‘Regal and other Historic emails Illustrative of your rule off Henry 111,’ edited of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. Towards profiles 500-503 is the transcript regarding an original letter old Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, in order to King Henry 111. Within page, Marshall covers their siege of your castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He directories the people the guy found in the palace O’Realy whenever they surrendered, it included: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I’m advised that the means i’ve here Gwenllian, daughter of Prince llywelyn, just who appears to be called ‘sister from Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd as brand new illegitimate child regarding Llywelyn, it’s pulled one ‘de patre et matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd had been complete bloodstream aunt and you will cousin. Had Gwenllian come Joanna’s child and this King Henry’s niece, definitely Marshall could have stated thereon fact? So it failure off de Lacy’s partner given that king’s niece, was taken as near particular proof you to Gwenllian was not this new daughter of the king’s sister Joanna.
These features was basically part of Joanna’s maritagium out of their dad Queen John
Ken: Thanks for you to regard to Gwenllian. I am certainly not a professional genealogist, however, I do plenty of research without any help contours. In my opinion a few of the “pros” are really jealous and you can angry of each other (at the very least evidently means in a few of all things it article). You can find points that we’re simply not planning to understand with certainty on people in the fresh new MA because they did not keep public information eg we would now, very genealogists and you will historians have to use their best view in the sorting something out. In reality, public information try a fairly “new” design – of numerous states in the usa did not remain info away from births and you will fatalities before early 1900’s. We belong to several origin societies in which I’ve had to prove 11 or 12 generations, and you will believe me it is hard. So i extremely enjoy the problem out-of evaluating MA ancestors. (Additionally the unfortunate matter is the fact that information that exist towards the MA is actually of the royalty and nobility – nothing anyway towards common somebody).
